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Mike Kuhlman

Most Widely Accepted by Buyers Video Codec?

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8 hours ago, Simone Hogan said:

With video, we are left with the decision. Do we want to deliver the best file we can, or save storage space and time during upload?

 

Money is also a factor. The NLEs that offer codecs like Prores are usually pretty expensive - as are the powerful computer systems that run them. So some people may submit h264 due to budget constraints.

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I really hate H264 as a codec, the compression is horrible and when viewed at 100%, I think the quality is just not there. But that is just my opinion.

I have been using some middle-ground codecs which others may like to try if their system can't handle the huge files of ProRes. PhotoJpeg has been my favourite from the start, if you can still get it. I haven't updated my version of Premiere Pro, so if you have the older version it should still be there. The other one I have been using lately is Motion Jpeg, and I have found it to be a really good codec. The file sizes are even less than P-jpeg, but the quality is very good and definitely higher than h264. And have been accepted by all 4 video agencies that I upload to.

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6 hours ago, Richard Whitcombe said:

I wish SS would support H265 but it doesnt so its 2 pass VBR H264 for me.

Not interested in ProRes as it wont play back on Windows and its got "apple" in the name.

 

Sorry, you are incorrect.  ProRes playback is no problem on Windows, and furthermore, no matter what anyone has said on this thread, ProRes is still the most mainstream codec among video professionals on all platforms.  It is 10-bit 4:2:2 and universally accepted everywhere.  Do what you want with that information, but that is a fact.

Also, 2 -pass VBR compression is all about improving compression efficiency and creating smaller file sizes.  It will usually have zero effect on image quality. In my opinion, you are wasting your time on longer renders for no benefit.  But that is your choice.

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Actually no, prores does not play back easily in Windows 10 using the inbuilt player or VLC.  IF you want to install the utter abortion of apple quicktime it might but nobody sane would want to do that.

Given all of my footage comes as H264 or mov directly from the devices theres nothing to be gained converting to prores anyway.

And VBR 2 pass results in smaller file sizes for the same compression quality.  Which when it takes 4-5 hours to upload a 20 second video clip is a significant positive feature.

 

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13 minutes ago, Richard Whitcombe said:

Actually no, prores does not play back easily in Windows 10 using the inbuilt player or VLC.  IF you want to install the utter abortion of apple quicktime it might but nobody sane would want to do that.

And VBR 2 pass results in smaller file sizes for the same compression quality.  Which when it takes 4-5 hours to upload a 20 second video clip is a significant positive feature.

 

You clearly don't have a clue about the customers you are attempting to sell your footage to.  You shouldn't confuse your experience with ProRes with that of the customer.   Professional editors on Windows machines are not using VLC or the built-in video player to watch the clips they have purchased.   Our customers are professional video editors who  have no problem integrating ProRes clips into their edit within Premeire, Avid, Resolve, Vegas, or whatever, and in fact, would prefer ProRes clips if given the choice over MP4.  You need to put yourself in the shoes of your customer and not let your own biases or troubles influence your judgement.

Also, if it takes you 4-5 hours to upload a single clip you need to get some better internet, my friend.  I have a very slow 20 Mbps upload connection where I live and it still only takes a few minutes to upload 4K ProRes clips.  I can submit dozens of clips overnight with no problem at all and I don't see how anyone could even consider being successful in stock footage if it takes them 4-5 hours to upload.  That's a deal breaker.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Richard Whitcombe said:

And VBR 2 pass results in smaller file sizes for the same compression quality.  Which when it takes 4-5 hours to upload a 20 second video clip is a significant positive feature.

BTW, I'm curious about what codec you are rendering to and what your VBR bit-rate settings are for 4K and HD. Please share.

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Just now, Doug Jensen said:

You clearly don't have a clue about the customers you are attempting to sell your footage to.  You shouldn't confuse your experience with ProRes with that of the customer.   Professional editors on Windows machines are not using VLC or the built-in video player to watch the clips they have purchased.   Our customers are professional video editors who  have no problem integrating ProRes clips into their edit within Premeire, Avid, Resolve, Vegas, or whatever, and in fact, would prefer ProRes clips if given the choice over MP4.

Also, if it takes you 4-5 hours to upload a single clip you need to get some better internet, my friend.  I have a very slow 20 Mbps upload connection where I live and it still only takes a few minutes to upload 4K ProRes clips.  I can submit dozens of clips overnight with no problem at all and I don't see how anyone could even consider being successful in stock footage if it takes them 4-5 hours to upload.  That's a deal breaker.

 

 

Im fully aware who buys clips.  A lot of them dont want/require proes and expensive NLEs.  Lots want a clip as,is to slot in or simply use.  Or if it is in another format its not a problem.

And taking a H264 compressed source and simply making it prores makes no sense what-so-ever.

As for getting better internet, its a little bit beyond my ability to change an entire countries infrastructure just to satisfy my choice of codec.  You class 20mbit as slow which on a world scale of things is utterly hillarious - most people would kill to get a reliable internet connection at even a quarter of that speed.

Even in the UK where im from the average available upload speed for a customer outside one of the few major cities is 5mbit.

Take a step outside your comfortable little sheltered life in the US or western world and you'll quickly realise infrastructure is nowhere near that level in places where lots of people live and work.

Depending on the day of week and time of day along with the weather my upload will vary from 3mbit to about 0.5mbit.  In other countries such as the Philippines the upload is 0.5mbit at best in large areas.  "Getting better internet" is a cute idea but no more than a fantasy in lots of these areas.

For stock work in lots of places you have to work within the confines of what is available so you make efforts to reduce file sizes, schedules and so on just to get anything online.

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Hey, if you've got circumstances that you think are beyond your control that force your hand to make certain decisions or compromises with the products you are trying to sell to customers, that is understandable and you should have just said that upfront instead of blurting out ignorant statements like "Not interested in ProRes as it wont play back on Windows and its got "apple" in the name. "   . . . . and "Actually no, prores does not play back easily in Windows 10 using the inbuilt player or VLC.  IF you want to install the utter abortion of apple quicktime it might but nobody sane would want to do ".  Those ill-informed, ignorant statements, made by someone who clearly is not familiar with how the professional video industry (our customers) operate, should not go unchallenged by those of us who know better.  These threads are read by people who may not know what is best, but who don't want to be mislead by the crude rantings of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about and has some kind of ax to grind against Apple.    You got the reply you deserved,  and then you came up with a bunch of other excuses about your poor internet connection.  So if you had faster internet, are we to assume you'd use the "utter abortion of apple quicktime"?   Make up your mind.

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H264 has recently disappointed me and I want to go to prores but (and it is a great but) I am in a town where internet access is very limited both in infrastructure and cost. So my upload speed is very, very slow.

So, prores 422 PROXY will be enough? Please be a yes = D

 

Thanks.

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On 6/25/2019 at 8:27 AM, Richard Whitcombe said:

Not interested in ProRes as it wont play back on Windows and its got "apple" in the name.

This is silly. Both DaVinci Resolve 16 (the pro version) and even Adobe's Premiere Pro have Pro Res available for Windows users, and I've no issues playing back clips with ProRes on my PC either.

As for deciding what codec to use; only each individual contributor can decide that for themselves. 

Anyways, back to lurking I go. Have fun kids!

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8 hours ago, Jeremy Lopez Foppiani said:

So, prores 422 PROXY will be enough?

Absolutely not. Proxy files are low-res versions of the video files intended for offline editing. If Shutterstock or any other agency would accept video clips exported as ProRes Proxy, that would be a horrible disservice to the customers.

Here's some more information on the various flavors of ProRes, so you can read up on it:

https://www.4kshooters.net/2015/01/26/choose-the-version-of-prores-best-suited-to-your-project/

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