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Photo Examples of Good Rule or Technique Application, Help for the New Contributor


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Rudy, I can always count on you to fill in the blanks.  I've known of the golden spiral for quite some time but I hadn't (up until a few days ago) looked it up to find out what I needed to do differently (photographically) in order to use the Golden Spiral as my compositional guide rather than the rule of thirds. 

Maybe I didn't research it sufficiently but the best I could tell, the primary difference (photographically) between it and the Rule of Thirds is that the elements of your image should be "arranged" on the spiral which will cause your eye to be led around the spiral to the terminus where your subject is to be placed.  The placement of the additional elements on the spiral seem to be the key to it's aesthetics, setting it apart from the Rule of Thirds which just places your subject at one of the intersections points.

I wanted to add some of what you included in your post but I tend to be pretty verbose and  figured I better just stick to the photographic elements and benefits.  Thanks for the philosophical and spiritual implications.      

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Most of us that have been here a while have done our share of critiquing the portfolios of our many newcomers, often a bit more harshly than we intended or possibly should have.  While I realize

After 13 pages, I have no idea if it came up already or not, but just to be sure, sometimes it is good to ignore typical composition rules and leave some space for the buyer for copy or  cropping.

My apologies to those of you who are getting tired of seeing this thread but in reviewing my portfolio images I noticed how often I have used an "S" curve in the composition of my images.  While I lik

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38 minutes ago, Steve Bower said:

Rudy, I can always count on you to fill in the blanks.  I've known of the golden spiral for quite some time but I hadn't (up until a few days ago) looked it up to find out what I needed to do differently (photographically) in order to use the Golden Spiral as my compositional guide rather than the rule of thirds. 

Maybe I didn't research it sufficiently but the best I could tell, the primary difference (photographically) between it and the Rule of Thirds is that the elements of your image should be "arranged" on the spiral which will cause your eye to be led around the spiral to the terminus where your subject is to be placed.  The placement of the additional elements on the spiral seem to be the key to it's aesthetics, setting it apart from the Rule of Thirds which just places your subject at one of the intersections points.

I wanted to add some of what you included in your post but I tend to be pretty verbose and  figured I better just stick to the photographic elements and benefits.  Thanks for the philosophical and spiritual implications.      

LOL. I just thought I throw it in there and although I think it is very interesting and these tidbits of knowledge could help with one's photography, in the greater scheme of things, none of what I wrote really matters much.

The rule of thirds has been around since the 18th century and was originally used a little different than how we use it today. I might be mistaken, but the rule of thirds as we know it, was made popular in the  golden age of advertising in the fifties. They placed the most important element of an advertisement (logo, name, product) on one of the intersections because somebody with time on his/her hands discovered that's where viewers look first. And they are right

Even though the Golden Spiral is much more interesting,  in my opinion for commercial microstock purposes, the  rule of thirds might be more applicable. It is "safer" and somehat the lazy way out.

Either way, I still tell people to study advertisements, they will help to get a greater understanding of composition. 

Having said that, I really loved your post and I think that anybody who is in the slightest interested in learning about composition should learn about the Golden Spiral and the Golden Ratio. It would be a tremendous help.

btw, I think that most software programs have overlays in the crop tool with the rule of thirds, golden spiral, triangles and some other things. I know that Photoshop, Corel's PSP, and Affinity have it. 

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Rudy, Where exactly is the Golden Spiral Overlay found in Photoshop?  That might be of interest to the new contributors (and me).  I read it can be found in Lightroom (which I never use) but I didn't find it when I looked.  I am using Photoshop CS4 and the applicable version of Lightroom so that could be the problem.

Thanks again for your "insight". 

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10 minutes ago, Steve Bower said:

Rudy, Where exactly is the Golden Spiral Overlay found in Photoshop?  That might be of interest to the new contributors (and me).  I read it can be found in Lightroom (which I never use) but I didn't find it when I looked.  I am using Photoshop CS4 and the applicable version of Lightroom so that could be the problem.

Thanks again for your "insight". 

I don't know about CS 4, but in the latest, you click on the crop tool and then in the toolbar on top you click on the icon that looks like a tic tac toe board. 

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17 hours ago, Steve Bower said:

Rudy, Where exactly is the Golden Spiral Overlay found in Photoshop?  That might be of interest to the new contributors (and me).  I read it can be found in Lightroom (which I never use) but I didn't find it when I looked.  I am using Photoshop CS4 and the applicable version of Lightroom so that could be the problem.

Thanks again for your "insight". 

Just a note, my cameras all have an option to have the overlay of the thirds grid, in the viewfinder.

I might add, that whether using the Golden Ratio or Rule of Thirds, the idea is they are a guide, not a law. You can go outside and do what you feel in any situation. What's important to understand is, using these rules, as a guide, will give the most commonly pleasing and effective image composition.

If someone doesn't watch their composition, they are not going to have ugly photos, but they will have less pleasing and probably less downloaded images. The rules should be called the Guides. 👍

So lets do a quick guide:

Rule of Thirds = strong composition

Subject sharp and in focus

Proper Exposure

Straight Horizon

Leave some space for copy

Bright colors

These are guides/rules for better stock photos, not that any of them are laws, that can't be broken, for how to shoot. Any time the image and subject can be better, by breaking a rule, then do that. But don't ignore the rules to start with or the image will be at a disadvantage.

Answer is: in Lightroom it's Grid View, Photoshop View>Show>Grid

 

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3 hours ago, HodagMedia said:

Answer is: in Lightroom it's Grid View, Photoshop View>Show>Grid

 

in CC 21 the grid is just that, a grid. No golden rule or spirals or triangles. Those are in the crop toolbox 

 

In Picasso's famous words "You have to learn the rules before you can break them" . This logical statement alone celebrates the rules and does not mean that rules devaluate the learning process of photography, or flat art in general, by calling them guidelines. (Reading what I just wrote, I sound like a politician lol)

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clivewa.

Great images!  This is something that I have never tried.  Is your camera capable of shooting infrared or did you have one of your old cameras converted to shoot it?

Do you ever upload any infrared shots?  Do they sell?  Any further information would be much appreciated as I'm sure other contributors would be interested as well.

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14 minutes ago, Steve Bower said:

clivewa.

Great images!  This is something that I have never tried.  Is your camera capable of shooting infrared or did you have one of your old cameras converted to shoot it?

Do you ever upload any infrared shots?  Do they sell?  Any further information would be much appreciated as I'm sure other contributors would be interested as well.

Steve,

The camera is a Sony A7 which has been converted, and is currently fitted with a 720nm filter.  The biggest problem I have found is finding a lens which is good at infrared.  Most lenses are not.  The images were taken with an old Minolta 17-35mm lens, which is the only zoom I've so found so far that is good at IR over its whole zoom range.

I have uploaded IR shots to several microstock sites but they don't sell well for me.  I think the images are quite atmospheric, so perhaps I'll try arcangel with my next IR attempts.

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2 hours ago, clivewa said:

I sometimes give myself a change of style by giving infrared a try.  This does have difficulties, and I think of it more as a personal indulgence than a commercial endeavour, but I do enjoy it.  In fact, come to think of it, my microstock activity in general is just a hobby spinoff!

DSC00908.jpg

DSC01159.jpg

Nice!

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21 hours ago, Rudy Umans said:

in CC 21 the grid is just that, a grid. No golden rule or spirals or triangles. Those are in the crop toolbox 

 

In Picasso's famous words "You have to learn the rules before you can break them" . This logical statement alone celebrates the rules and does not mean that rules devaluate the learning process of photography, or flat art in general, by calling them guidelines. (Reading what I just wrote, I sound like a politician lol)

Yes, I agree, we need to learn the basics before moving on to inspired or advanced personal ideas. Like music, you practice the rudiments and scales, and then learn the skills needed. Someone new doesn't just grab something and naturally go swing and improvise.

I was on some BODs for road rally, county golf Assn. and city bowling Assn. (at different times thank you) Sometimes I ended up on the rule committee or By-Laws, where we went over every word and bit of punctuation. Some clubs are very strict, the rules are the rules, while others like social gimmick rally, were, "we can't call them rules, they are just guidelines to follow". Yes there is some diplomacy involved.

But back to photography, there is always leeway for creative pursuits, so I'll stick with guidelines and essential basics.

Another one:

“You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.”


Albert Einstein

 

Photography is pretty basic, the physics never lie or change. Three factors for the camera: Time, Light and Sensitivity. Otherwise known as Shutter Speed, Aperture and ISO. Goodness, it's so simple, only three variables? rofl.gif

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On 12/16/2020 at 3:53 PM, clivewa said:

The camera is a Sony A7 which has been converted, and is currently fitted with a 720nm filter.  The biggest problem I have found is finding a lens which is good at infrared.  Most lenses are not.  The images were taken with an old Minolta 17-35mm lens, which is the only zoom I've so found so far that is good at IR over its whole zoom range.

I have uploaded IR shots to several microstock sites but they don't sell well for me.  I think the images are quite atmospheric, so perhaps I'll try arcangel with my next IR attempts.

Love your paintings and photography @clivewa. I Really do!

Hope you have other outlets besides microstock because just microstock would be a total waste of your talent. (besides the  enjoyment creating the pieces, which is never a waste)

Your work needs to be seen by the art world and that will probably never happen by just submitting them to microstock.

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Thank you for your kind remarks Rudy, although I'm not sure I deserve them.  I don't much care for dealing with galleries, and so (being of a grumpy disposition, I'm told) I choose not to bother them.  Also there are severe practical difficulties in selling art.  The worst is that galleries tend to like framed pictures, and as I already have a storage space problem with unframed paintings on board or paper, I don't dare to start framing them because that would make the storage problem much worse.  On the plus side, I enjoy painting and microstock does mean I can indulge myself in buying photo gear that I would otherwise consider too expensive.  Also I'm not much of an entrepreneur, and being well-retired by now I'm not inclined to take on tasks that I don't feel like doing.

What you suggest does indirectly come about via the microstock market because if I do an image search on one of my better painting efforts I usually find that it is available through various "wall art" outlets as a framed copy.

So again, thanks for your enouraging comments.

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1 hour ago, clivewa said:

Thank you for your kind remarks Rudy, although I'm not sure I deserve them.  I don't much care for dealing with galleries, and so (being of a grumpy disposition, I'm told) I choose not to bother them.  Also there are severe practical difficulties in selling art.  The worst is that galleries tend to like framed pictures, and as I already have a storage space problem with unframed paintings on board or paper, I don't dare to start framing them because that would make the storage problem much worse.  On the plus side, I enjoy painting and microstock does mean I can indulge myself in buying photo gear that I would otherwise consider too expensive.  Also I'm not much of an entrepreneur, and being well-retired by now I'm not inclined to take on tasks that I don't feel like doing.

What you suggest does indirectly come about via the microstock market because if I do an image search on one of my better painting efforts I usually find that it is available through various "wall art" outlets as a framed copy.

So again, thanks for your enouraging comments.

Well, I respect your point of view and I will not be trying to talk you into something you don't want to do or already know.

and from one grumpy old man to another, I just love your paintings. :) 

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On 1/23/2019 at 3:10 PM, Steve Bower said:

Starsphinx,

Thanks for your comments.  Based upon the lack of response thus far and the attitudes of some of the newbies expressed (on this forum) currently and in the past, I'm not sure there is going to be sufficient desire to "help" the newcomer.  That's regrettable but it may be the current situation here at SS.

If I get no assistance, I'll let this thread die a natural death.     

Forgive me for saying it but I think the best help for newbies is to remind them that the vast majority of image sales here are now for ten cents or a little more per photo. In other words SS will all but give their work away.

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4 hours ago, lonndubh said:

Forgive me for saying it but I think the best help for newbies is to remind them that the vast majority of image sales here are now for ten cents or a little more per photo. In other words SS will all but give their work away.

Wow thanks, I hadn't noticed that change LAST JUNE! And ps the thread is actually about help for a new contributor about making better images, not the endless crying and complaining. I'd rather get more than 10c, but I'd rather get something than nothing. This is Microstock! AKA Micropayment stock. Where for years, everyone has pretty much been giving away their work.

SS has been paying us over 380% of the subscription price in some large packs.

Now about that rule of thirds and golden ratio?

On 12/16/2020 at 11:23 AM, Rudy Umans said:

in CC 21 the grid is just that, a grid. No golden rule or spirals or triangles. Those are in the crop toolbox

So they are in the crop toolbox? I don't subscribe to CC so you'll have to make that clear for those who do. Thanks

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lonndubh,

Pete, was a little more blunt than I might like but he's right, I started this thread nearly two years ago to help new contributors.  When and if I come across something that might help new photographers, I resurrect it.  I would like to limit the comments to those topics that might be of interest or help to contributors that need a little help.  Thanks for anything you might add that will assist them.     

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11 minutes ago, Rudy Umans said:

I did. (twice)

OK I'm slow and dull? This means if I had CC21 You say there's "No golden rule or spirals or triangles", then go on to say I'd find the Golden Rule and Spirals in the crop toolbox? Those are kind of conflicting statements?

I looked in Elements, nothing but grid or "rule of thirds" in the crop toolbox. Someone who uses Lightroom might want to chime in.

On 12/16/2020 at 11:23 AM, Rudy Umans said:

in CC 21 the grid is just that, a grid. No golden rule or spirals or triangles. Those are in the crop toolbox

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7 hours ago, HodagMedia said:

OK I'm slow and dull? This means if I had CC21 You say there's "No golden rule or spirals or triangles", then go on to say I'd find the Golden Rule and Spirals in the crop toolbox? Those are kind of conflicting statements?

I looked in Elements, nothing but grid or "rule of thirds" in the crop toolbox. Someone who uses Lightroom might want to chime in.

not conflicting. I was referring to this: "Answer is: in Lightroom it's Grid View, Photoshop View>Show>Grid" (your post)

I don't know about lightroom nor Elements. I don't use those

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12 hours ago, Rudy Umans said:

not conflicting. I was referring to this: "Answer is: in Lightroom it's Grid View, Photoshop View>Show>Grid" (your post)

I don't know about lightroom nor Elements. I don't use those

Oh the Overlay Icon, why didn't you say so?

choose-golden-ratio-overlay.png

Yes, only grids on Elements "Golden ratio is removed from Elements 13 onwards." and after doing some searching Lightroom has the overlays also. Maybe my old Elements 10 isn't so bad after all? But I have 2020 now, so there goes.

 

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