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Awana JF

Shotlist and (positive?) Discrimination

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Hello,
For some time now I have had an ethical problem to submit to you. In my opinion, targeting a certain group for their "skin color", gender, sexual orientation or body shape is the basis of what we define as racism, sexism, and phobias based on sexual orientation or the look.
So my question is: isn't it a reprehensible attitude to seek out and target a certain type of people as advised in the shotlist? I understand that the objective is justified as wanting to change mentalities but some people will in my opinion be quite right to feel harassed. How do you see this problem? Personally, I always have trouble dealing with positive discrimination, precisely because it remains discrimination ... Of course, I do not wish to open a controversy but only to have your opinions and thoughts. My environment and my life have meant that I still have a hard time understanding these issues of racism, sexism, sexual preferences and appearances and I don't think I have any prejudices towards others.
Thank you for your answers and opinions

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I know exactly what you mean, and yes, it does bother me, and yes I understand why it is being done, but it still bothers me. Because it turns us all into racists.

I seriously never even thought about a person's skin color until I started shooting man-on-the-street interviews for a market research company, and on every project they told me I must include so and so many people of this or that race in my interview pool. Which made me go out with my camera and for the first time ever stare at people trying to figure out their ethnicity! And whether this one or that one looked "Asian" or "Hispanic" or whatever enough to qualify. Sick!

I encountered it even worse on a project I produced for a supplier of learning materials. When I recruited kids to act in the classroom scenes, I was told in no uncertain terms that I had to go out of my way to find non-white kids. And not just some, but at least half of the total (which is totally unrealistic for my area). There was also a big push for boys to be included. What this resulted in was that several Caucasian girls who had years of acting experience and did great in the auditions got kicked off the list and were replaced by Hispanic and African American students, some of which struggled to even read their lines, much less memorize them, or froze like deer in the headlights when the camera started rolling. It made a mess of the shoot and created a nightmare in the editing. How was that fair to anyone? In the case of those blond girls, it was a clear case of reverse racial discrimination.

Again, I'm not a racist. But I'm bothered by all such affirmative action. I never had my business certified as "woman owned" either, because the idea that someone would hire me not for my skills but because they then can check some box off somewhere, irks me.

Anyway. Awana, I'm sure we've just opened a HUGE can of worms here. Pandora's worms!

Somehow I feel like I'm not even allowed to have an opinion on this topic, because I'm white. Which of course is also nuts! My personal dream is that in a few more generations we will all be so mixed that the idea of race will fade away. Meanwhile, would love to hear from people who are supposed to be helped by this.

 

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It is only positive discrimination if all circumstances are equal

but they are not. Minorities (of all kinds) are still playing catch-up. That counts for women too

Having said that, Trying to give minorities a head start should come from love and care and an awareness of unity and that all people on this blue speck of dust are the drops of one ocean. It shouldn't come from commercial or political reasons. That would be fake and wouldn't be sustainable.

 

 

 

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@Milo J Back in the nineteens and early twenties I was a Small Business Assistance Officer for Palm Beach County and prior to that the local bus company, which was federal,  and one of the things I did was certifying women and minority owned businesses. I can assure you that "Women Owned" is not that black and white (no pun intended). Actually I should say "was" because it's all changed now. There is no such things as M/WBE anymore.  Nevertheless, I can understand your point, but at the same token, if it wasn't for programs like this, we would still live in the fifties for the most part. Was it perfect? No. Necessary? Yes. Still is really (Btw I was the only white guy there) A colleague and I actually rewrote the county M/WBE ordinance


"What this resulted in was that several Caucasian girls who had years of acting experience and did great in the auditions got kicked off the list and were replaced by Hispanic and African American students, some of which struggled to even read their lines, much less memorize them, or froze like deer in the headlights when the camera started rolling. "

Why do you think the the Minority boys and girls were so much behind? Contemplate about that for a minute or two

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I've been discriminated against because I had sight problems at birth & suffered with prejudice all my life - similar to non white people & in some ways even worse.  Unfortunately people in my position don't have a voice because there's far fewer of us than people who are non white.

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There is no such thing as positive discrimination. All discrimination based on age, gender, ethnicity or any other factor over which a person has no control is ethically wrong. It is incredible that this even needs to be said. Treat everybody equally, and follow the golden rule - treating others as you would wish to be treated.

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41 minutes ago, Barry Paterson said:

There is no such thing as positive discrimination. All discrimination based on age, gender, ethnicity or any other factor over which a person has no control is ethically wrong. It is incredible that this even needs to be said. Treat everybody equally, and follow the golden rule - treating others as you would wish to be treated.

Positive discrimination does exists, but it doesn't mean it is positive. It is preferential treatment, which is in some cases in this day and age necessary in order to get that equality. E.G. when a particular group is grossly underrepresented in an organization or trade. Of course you are right that all forms of discrimination and prejudice should be abolished (and it will one day), but right now, humans are not mature enough yet and need to be reminded sometimes. 

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55 minutes ago, Tony Dunn said:

I've been discriminated against because I had sight problems at birth & suffered with prejudice all my life - similar to non white people & in some ways even worse.  Unfortunately people in my position don't have a voice because there's far fewer of us than people who are non white.

did it make you stronger?

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14 minutes ago, Merlin Photography said:

'Positive discrimination' or 'affirmative action', as I understand the concept, is the opposite to a 'head start' but rather 'catch up'. It's giving groups, sectors of society etc an opportunity to be included where they have historically been excluded. 

You're right. Wrong choice of words. ( I used "catch up" in the same post actually) From all people I should know.  See my posts to Milo J and Barry P

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Just now, Rudy Umans said:

You're right. Wrong choice of words. From all people I should know.  See my post to Milo J

Yes I deleted my comment after re-reading yours. You were saying the same thing as me 😊

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2 minutes ago, Merlin Photography said:

Yes I deleted my comment after re-reading yours. You were saying the same thing as me 😊

We're on the same page and that's what count. :)

 

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5 hours ago, Awana JF said:

 In my opinion, targeting a certain group for their "skin color", gender, sexual orientation or body shape is the basis of what we define as racism, sexism, and phobias based on sexual orientation or the look.


So my question is: isn't it a reprehensible attitude to seek out and target a certain type of people as advised in the shotlist?

The shot list advice is trying to direct us to be inclusive. The world is made up of all the types of people that it mentions below so therefore this is what they want to see portrayed in the shots ie a representative cross section of society. This is taking into account an historic basis of negative discrimination and exclusion of those groups. 

So, with regard to your first paragraph above those concepts refer to those groups being targeted negatively.

With regard to your second paragraph above this refers to those groups being targeted positively.

Opposites.

(For reference the shot list says this 

'For the best results, your content should include individuals of diverse ethnicities, genders, ages, abilities, and body types')

 

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did it make you stronger?

Probably but the people at the top don't care especially tech founders who always seem to be white, middle class & american & seem to be good at doing things that upset the majority of people. See the new payment structure on here.
Sorry for late reply. I was blocked from the forum but can post again by turning off java script.(someone said turn this on another post) Maybe tech geeks did it on purpose but I found out how to do it so if you tech geeks are responsible Get a life!

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