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czoborraul

Just in case you wanted to know how much the "BOSS" cares.

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54 minutes ago, czoborraul said:

Bottom line is, stop being lazy and produce more. Those 0.10& won't sell by themselves.

105661708_4278767895497169_9043303329959883974_n.jpg

Wow

just wow

real professional

i don’t have a twitter account but would like to ask Jon how many downloads did it take for SS to reach $1B in payouts to contributers - and how many projected downloads will it take to reach the next Billion?

 

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I don’t think he realizes a lot of the good photographers, videographers, illustrators have already left or planning on leaving at the end of June.  He’s either too arrogant or too blind to see what is happening.  I believe this is the end of SS.  SS was a top tier agency but I think in a year or two, they will drop to an iS level type agency.  On a personal note, I never had a good experience with iS.  AS and P5 seem the way to go.

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1 hour ago, Josef Pittner said:

I don’t think he realizes a lot of the good photographers, videographers, illustrators have already left or planning on leaving at the end of June.

The question we have to ask ourselves is of course how much "a lot" is. 
MS has always been, in every way, a numbers game. 
And what we think is "a lot" may only be "a bit" to our overpaid arrogant contractor. 

I don’t think we realize a lot of the good photographers, videographers, illustrators will still be there at the end of June.

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1 hour ago, geogif said:

The question we have to ask ourselves is of course how much "a lot" is. 
MS has always been, in every way, a numbers game. 
And what we think is "a lot" may only be "a bit" to our overpaid arrogant contractor. 

I don’t think we realize a lot of the good photographers, videographers, illustrators will still be there at the end of June.

Now everyone is thinking the situation in their own way. if taking the files off will be a huge blow financially I can understand the reluctant thinking, but sooner or later the site will output small enough revenues that they will consider leaving.

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Why would anyone takes their content off Shutterstock? The work has already been done, it costs you nothing to keep it on SS and you still make some money from it. It's an emotional response and not a business one.

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22 minutes ago, Charles Lewis said:

Why would anyone takes their content off Shutterstock? The work has already been done, it costs you nothing to keep it on SS and you still make some money from it. It's an emotional response and not a business one.

Well I can respect your opinion on the matter but no way in hell do I agree to it. I upload on several sites and do not agree to sell my photos at this rate and do not want to affect my pictures performances on other sites by leaving my work to sell for 0.10$ instead of higher.

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54 minutes ago, Charles Lewis said:

Why would anyone takes their content off Shutterstock? The work has already been done, it costs you nothing to keep it on SS and you still make some money from it. It's an emotional response and not a business one.

Well Charles, for some it’s a matter of pride/dignity/ self respect because they put a value on their work and when someone feels that their work is worth a negligible amount, they move on.

For others it could be a business decision. As you said, making, editing and uploading images takes resources of time and money, and when the return makes it skewed to their disadvantage, they may  just decide it’s better to cut the losses and move on. There are other places to put their work.

Some production houses have disabled their work here. I mean ones that had ~1M assets. They invested a lot of time putting those assets on here. Think they didn’t sit down and do some number crunching? They know more about this business than you or I. For them it was a business decision. Nothing more, nothing less.

Question - is there a point where you would be motivated to deactivate/remove your content? 5 cents, 3 cents, or would you just stay because of all the work you’ve put in uploading here?

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5 minutes ago, njene said:

Well Charles, for some it’s a matter of pride/dignity/ self respect because they put a value on their work and when someone feels that their work is worth a negligible amount, they move on.

For others it could be a business decision. As you said, making, editing and uploading images takes resources of time and money, and when the return makes it skewed to their disadvantage, they may  just decide it’s better to cut the losses and move on. There are other places to put their work.

Some production houses have disabled their work here. I mean ones that had ~1M assets. They invested a lot of time putting those assets on here. Think they didn’t sit down and do some number crunching? They know more about this business than you or I. For them it was a business decision. Nothing more, nothing less.

Question - is there a point where you would be motivated to deactivate/remove your content? 5 cents, 3 cents, or would you just stay because of all the work you’ve put in uploading here?

I did my own 'number crunching' and my decision is to stay. I also did my own competitive industry analysis and the balance of forces is so heavily skewed in favor of the agencies that going from one to another is akin to stepping from the pot and into the fire. So, for me, the real decision is not whether to abandon SS in favor of AS or another agency but whether to walk away from stock photography agencies altogether.

Everyone has a different business circumstance and will take their own decision. At this point in time I cannot see me walking away. What happens in the future remains to be seen.

 

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He is an arrogant and his answer seems to come from anger more than from a thinking brain. There is no point in offending contributors like he does. He lives a good life because of us. A man, who earns as much as him, can't talk about going back to work to people who is paid 0.1 $.

This said, this month I have a loss only on subs, a big loss in percentage, almost a 50%. That's why I am not uploading anymore, but, till I have ODD, EL, and SOD, I will stay. I don't have them on other sites. On January, everything will change. Without those kind of big downloads, there is no earning at all here and I don't see the point of working hard for 20 $ a month.

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1 hour ago, balajisrinivasan said:

I think the problem is, many of the contributors agitating have no idea of what it takes to sell an image because they never had to. The stock agencies make things so easy for them that they don't realise that taking a picture, keywording and submitting is just 10 percent of the work. You need to work a lot harder to "sell an image". That's 90 percent of the work and it's boring and all the stock agencies do that work for them. They could ask any professional photographer outside of the "stock" sphere and that's what they would tell them.

Some agencies are better than the others at selling and going by the numbers, SS and AS are the best. Yes, the people at DT are nice, but they aren't as good at selling pictures. Ultimately that's what matters. And if you kick the one place that's selling your images out of your revenue sphere, it's you who's going to suffer, not the agency. I think that's what Jon is saying and I see no problem with his tweets. He's just being brutally honest.

Hmmm. So a day of shooting (that is counting driving, setting up lighting and model/product preparation) is only 10% of the work for you? It's like saying that a detergent company selling in a big store chain only deserves 10% of the price because the store is the one selling the product.

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1 hour ago, balajisrinivasan said:

The stock agencies make things so easy for them that they don't realise that taking a picture, keywording and submitting is just 10 percent of the work. You need to work a lot harder to "sell an image". That's 90 percent of the work and it's boring and all the stock agencies do that work for them. 

How did you arrive at your figures?

 

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6 hours ago, Josef Pittner said:

I don’t think he realizes a lot of the good photographers, videographers, illustrators have already left or planning on leaving at the end of June.  He’s either too arrogant or too blind to see what is happening.  I believe this is the end of SS.  SS was a top tier agency but I think in a year or two, they will drop to an iS level type agency.  On a personal note, I never had a good experience with iS.  AS and P5 seem the way to go.

are he knows these are not requirements for his customers.  How many have left?

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3 hours ago, Charles Lewis said:

Why would anyone takes their content off Shutterstock? The work has already been done, it costs you nothing to keep it on SS and you still make some money from it. It's an emotional response and not a business one.

 

because for my better editorial the rewards no longer match the risk of losing 20% elsewhere. 

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4 hours ago, czoborraul said:

Well I can respect your opinion on the matter but no way in hell do I agree to it. I upload on several sites and do not agree to sell my photos at this rate and do not want to affect my pictures performances on other sites by leaving my work to sell for 0.10$ instead of higher.

 
everyone who thinks that they will be fine according to the new plan is deceived, the agency will be flooded with mobile phone photographers, just like on the eyeem, old-fashioned photographers will not earn anything

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1 hour ago, jean-francois me said:

 

because for my better editorial the rewards no longer match the risk of losing 20% elsewhere. 

That's the great Unknown though, isn't it. How many buyers will go to the trouble of switching around between platforms, or even creating a new account somewhere else, just to look for a specific image? My own observation here has been that buyers do not care all that deeply, especially with editorial. Many will grab the first thing that meets their needs, even if a much better image is available.

 

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7 minutes ago, Milo J said:

That's the great Unknown though, isn't it. How many buyers will go to the trouble of switching around between platforms, or even creating a new account somewhere else, just to look for a specific image? My own observation here has been that buyers do not care all that deeply, especially with editorial. Many will grab the first thing that meets their needs, even if a much better image is available.

 

 

and fine, but the 4 times 10 cents i will lose will be exceeded by the additional commission being exclusive elsewhere.  In all fairness i was already not uploading new top editorials before this, now i got the incentive to start removing some of the uploaded ones. 

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22 hours ago, njene said:

Wow

just wow

real professional

i don’t have a twitter account but would like to ask Jon how many downloads did it take for SS to reach $1B in payouts to contributers - and how many projected downloads will it take to reach the next Billion?

 

What he doesn't say is how little actually went to each contributor.  A billion dollars sounds nice and entices more to contribute thinking they can get a slice of the pie, but those are aggregate numbers.  When they went public and had to file their IPO those of us that read it learned that the average SS contributor made about $80 per month. And that was in the "good old days of microstock".  We also learned a very high percentage of contributors never sold enough to hit the payout threshold.  

He is right.  The market has changed.  It has become worse.  That didn't just happen. SS and similar agencies are the ones that turned the market into a non-profitable situation for all concerned.  And all of us that agreed to allow our work to be sold for pennines helped them do it.  In fact, without us agreeing to be screwed this oppressive business model would have never gotten off the ground. The only way we will get what our photos are worth and to change "the market" is to refuse to allow our work to be sold for microstock prices.

For me the only way I see to make that happen right now is to license my work directly at fair prices.  And that is what I'm now doing.

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32 minutes ago, MSPhotographic said:

For me the only way I see to make that happen right now is to license my work directly at fair prices.  And that is what I'm now doing.

My hat off to you! That can't be easy.

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32 minutes ago, MSPhotographic said:

For me the only way I see to make that happen right now is to license my work directly at fair prices.  And that is what I'm now doing.

And, do tell, how are you doing that?  Website obviously.  How are you marketing?  Are your licenses similar to microstock?

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12 hours ago, Charles Lewis said:

Why would anyone takes their content off Shutterstock? The work has already been done, it costs you nothing to keep it on SS and you still make some money from it. It's an emotional response and not a business one.

Emotional one, LOL, what is the next step SS demands we pay for the server space our images take up? If this is successful all the other agency's will follow SS and our images will be worthless. Well the works already done so SS deserve's 100% of the profit from our work? Because that will be the next step.

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37 minutes ago, R Scott James said:

Emotional one, LOL, what is the next step SS demands we pay for the server space our images take up? If this is successful all the other agency's will follow SS and our images will be worthless. Well the works already done so SS deserve's 100% of the profit from our work? Because that will be the next step.

I totally agree.

There must be a bottom line but as an editor distributing texts to translators, I must confess there is none. My boss forces me to offer wages that I feel offended to express but there's abundance of people willing to take these offers. It's so sad to see this. Money speaks and soft hearts loose, they say. It's the same thing we're going through.

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2 hours ago, R Scott James said:

Why would anyone takes their content off Shutterstock? The work has already been done, it costs you nothing to keep it on SS and you still make some money from it. It's an emotional response and not a business one.

"you still make some money", Ha, so would you be happy making a nickel or a penny? If we don't take a stand and refuse to allow SS and other microstock agencies to sell our work  for 10 cents that's what it will happen.

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