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Milo J

Share your data - how has new earning structure affected you?

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2 hours ago, lonndubh said:

Well done. What has been the increase in the size of your portfolio, do you know? That would allow for a really accurate comparison.

Well, having a growing portfolio does put an unknown factor into the equation for overall income, which then makes it harder to compare year over year performance for the enitre portfolio.  I would agree with that.  But the size of a portfolio shouldn't have any direct effect on average income per download.   Whatever my average commission is per sale, it doesn't matter if I have 100 clips or 10,000.   If that number is going up, which it is, that is good.  And it flies in the face of everyone who was saying a couple months ago that the new subscription plans were going to slash our commissions to a fraction of what they had been.  Why am I seeing an increase?  The sky is not falling.

 

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LEVEL 5 ( from 1 June to 23 June over 1k+ Dls)

SUB
Old     $ 0.38
New    $ 0.23
Loss    -39.5%

 

ODD
Old:    $ 2.85
New   $ 2.92
Gain   +2.6%

 

EL
(this comes far and few between, i made comparison
June 2019 to June this year, both level 5)

Old    $25.50 (1 enhanced DL)
New  $39.64 (2 enhanced DLs)
Gain/Loss: Subjective

 

SOD
(again, this one i made comparison June 2019 to June this year,
taking into consideration i calculated both to 23 June, and the
number of DLs on the first two days this month are pretty messed up!)

Old    $102.30 (11 SODs)
New  $87.89   (70 SODs)
Loss: This one is a loss no matter how i see it.
 

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On 6/21/2020 at 8:12 PM, Doug Jensen said:

My average commission in May was $32.24. So far in June it is $39.86.  That is a 23% increase per download since last month.

In June 2019 by average commission was $36.18.  So far this month it is $39.86.  That is a 12% increase per download over the same month last year.

Thank you for sharing this. It is clear that, while many contributors here saw a loss in RPD under the new system, you saw an increase. Curious... is there some particular factor you attribute this to that other contributors could influence in regard to their portfolios (images and videos)?

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4 hours ago, chyworks said:

LEVEL 5 ( from 1 June to 23 June over 1k+ Dls)

EL
(this comes far and few between, i made comparison
June 2019 to June this year, both level 5)

Old    $25.50 (1 enhanced DL)
New  $39.64 (2 enhanced DLs)
Gain/Loss: Subjective

 

SOD
(again, this one i made comparison June 2019 to June this year,
taking into consideration i calculated both to 23 June, and the
number of DLs on the first two days this month are pretty messed up!)

Old    $102.30 (11 SODs)
New  $87.89   (70 SODs)
Loss: This one is a loss no matter how i see it.
 

Hi Chy,

 

ELs

39.64 x 100 / 35 = $113,26

That is what the buyer paid for your ELs. You get 35% = 39.64

Old System: $ 113.26 x 0,3 = 33.98

That would have been your income before (Level 4 = 30%)

Gain: + 16.6 %

 

SODs

87.89 x 100 / 35 = $251.11

That is what the buyer paid for your SODs. You get 35% = 87.89

Old System: $ 251.11 x 0,3 = 75.33

That would have been your income before (Level 4 = 30%)

Gain: + 16.7 %

 

Now you can count together and see if there is a gain or a loss.

 

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18 minutes ago, Wilm Ihlenfeld said:

Hi Chy,

 

ELs

39.64 x 100 / 35 = $113,26

That is what the buyer paid for your ELs. You get 35% = 39.64

Old System: $ 113.26 x 0,3 = 33.98

That would have been your income before (Level 4 = 30%)

Gain: + 16.6 %

 

SODs

87.89 x 100 / 35 = $251.11

That is what the buyer paid for your SODs. You get 35% = 87.89

Old System: $ 251.11 x 0,3 = 75.33

That would have been your income before (Level 4 = 30%)

Gain: + 16.7 %

 

Now you can count together and see if there is a gain or a loss.

 

Thanks Wilm for taking your time to breaking it down for me.

With EL i can see it as gain coz afterall, 1 el 2 els it still brings a higher earning comparing last year.

But with SODs, really appreciate if you can explain it in a layman term to me on how I gained 16% more this month when 70 SODs brought only 87 dollars as opposed to 102 dollar with only 11 SODs in june last year?

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3 hours ago, GregDPhotos said:

Curious... is there some particular factor you attribute this to that other contributors could influence in regard to their portfolios (images and videos)?

Get access to rocket launches at Kennedy Space Center.

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32 minutes ago, chyworks said:

But with SODs, really appreciate if you can explain it in a layman term to me on how I gained 16% more this month when 70 SODs brought only 87 dollars as opposed to 102 dollar with only 11 SODs in june last year?

Hi, Chy,

from my personal point of view, there is not much point in comparing with the same month of last year. If you happened to have 3 SODs for $300 last June, that would have been an absolute exception, which makes a comparison with this June impossible or dubious.

But I think that you have to calculate simply on the basis of the downloads of this current month - in comparison between the old and the new revenue model.

If you can believe the fine words of shutterstock, you should have taken in 5% more with the new model than with the old one. That's not the case with me. And probably not with you either. 

I don't know your exact figures. I only know your additional income compared to the old model, as far as the ELs and the SODs are concerned. So your profit on the new system is $18.22.

But let's say you had 800 subs so far. Then you have 184 US$ and under the old system it would have been 304 US$. A loss of 120 US$. And that is exactly the problem. That's why I assume that with the new model hardly anybody will make a profit.

 

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34 minutes ago, oleschwander said:

Get access to rocket launches at Kennedy Space Center.

Doug’s stuff defies gravity!

People can choose to believe that they are luckier than others for having a healthy growth for now. Come January next year, everyone must walk like a 3 year old again thanks to the reset crap.

And no, you can’t tell SS you don’t need to walk coz you can fly high chasing rockets and defies gravity like a superman.

It won’t work.

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14 minutes ago, Wilm Ihlenfeld said:

Hi, Chy,

from my personal point of view, there is not much point in comparing with the same month of last year. If you happened to have 3 SODs for $300 last June, that would have been an absolute exception, which makes a comparison with this June impossible or dubious.

But I think that you have to calculate simply on the basis of the downloads of this current month - in comparison between the old and the new revenue model.

If you can believe the fine words of shutterstock, you should have taken in 5% more with the new model than with the old one. That's not the case with me. And probably not with you either. 

I don't know your exact figures. I only know your additional income compared to the old model, as far as the ELs and the SODs are concerned. So your profit on the new system is $18.22.

But let's say you had 800 subs so far. Then you have 184 US$ and under the old system it would have been 304 US$. A loss of 120 US$. And that is exactly the problem. That's why I assume that with the new model hardly anybody will make a profit.

 

Yes loss more than that in sub but i fully agreed with what you said, Wilm.

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55 minutes ago, chyworks said:

Doug’s stuff defies gravity!

People can choose to believe that they are luckier than others for having a healthy growth for now. Come January next year, everyone must walk like a 3 year old again thanks to the reset crap.

And no, you can’t tell SS you don’t need to walk coz you can fly high chasing rockets and defies gravity like a superman.

It won’t work.

Exactly. And the faster you can climb back through the ranks the less this is going to negatively impact you. That's why I still think level six is actually a pay raise for the top contributors while the smaller and less popular ports will suffer the most.

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5 minutes ago, Foodio said:

Exactly. And the faster you can climb back through the ranks the less this is going to negatively impact you. That's why I still think level six is actually a pay raise for the top contributors while the smaller and less popular ports will suffer the most.

It's a vicious cycle!

🥕🐪🦯

can't find donkeys. LOL

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24 minutes ago, Foodio said:

Exactly. And the faster you can climb back through the ranks the less this is going to negatively impact you. That's why I still think level six is actually a pay raise for the top contributors while the smaller and less popular ports will suffer the most.

Indeed, the moment I saw this new system my first thought was that it is particularly unfair on newcomers. Personally my subs have gone from 0.33 to 0.18 each. I'm not into Maths so the percentage drop doesn't interest me. If of course they now sold in their hundreds one could argue that it's worth it but they won't and the actual price per photo matters to us all. I remain convinced that the number of subs sold will increase and the price per photo continue to drop.

 

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Not only has my income per download decreased by 50%, not 20%, but the number of downloads for June is half what it was in May (so far). Also it appears that people in North America are no longer able to see my content very high up in the searches. Zero downloads from North America whereas more than half were from that region in the last two years. I am still a newby and my portfolio is small; but these have been shocking changes that can't entirely be explained by those facts and the pandemic. Are search results being manipulated to favor larger more established contributors? Is Shutterstock charging customers much lower prices as well as reducing commissions? These things are making it hard to stay motivated and focused on the long term.

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32 minutes ago, Foodio said:

Exactly. And the faster you can climb back through the ranks the less this is going to negatively impact you. That's why I still think level six is actually a pay raise for the top contributors while the smaller and less popular ports will suffer the most.

For SS that will only cause some decline in diversity of the collection as the small contributors withdraw or fail to submit new material. Who knows whether that's perceived as good or bad by the management.

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49 minutes ago, Foodio said:

the top contributors while the smaller and less popular ports will suffer the most.

The middle class is still missing, so people like me.
I'm pretty sure that I would reach level 4 in a relatively short time when I upload again starting in January.
But I'm also sure that it would be impossible for me to reach level 5 in a reasonable time. 
So I would immediately stop uploading when level 4 is reached.
Because I would need the pictures for next January to be able to start climbing again.

A really stupid system invented by complete fools.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Sarit Richerson said:

Not only has my income per download decreased by 50%, not 20%, but the number of downloads for June is half what it was in May (so far). Also it appears that people in North America are no longer able to see my content very high up in the searches. Zero downloads from North America whereas more than half were from that region in the last two years. I am still a newby and my portfolio is small; but these have been shocking changes that can't entirely be explained by those facts and the pandemic. Are search results being manipulated to favor larger more established contributors? Is Shutterstock charging customers much lower prices as well as reducing commissions? These things are making it hard to stay motivated and focused on the long term.

Think I can answer that one. Unlikely! We have similarly sized albeit totally different portfolios and I have a fairly constant number of dls every month. This month is no different in dls. I'm even slightly up on May because of an EL and SOD. I've sold around 130 subs so far in June and the loss is 50% $24 instead of $49 (@$0.38 previously). ODDs come out at around the same money. Forgot to say I'm at 30% rate.

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3 hours ago, oleschwander said:

Get access to rocket launches at Kennedy Space Center.

If it makes you feel better to think that I'm succeeding by having access to something you don't, go ahead and believe it.  In reality, there isn't much demand for rocket launches. Out of the last 20 clips I've sold, only one was a rocket launch and that was clear back on June 16th.  I shoot rockets because it is fun.  My sales are well-rounded and cover all kinds of subject matter.

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6 hours ago, GregDPhotos said:

Thank you for sharing this. It is clear that, while many contributors here saw a loss in RPD under the new system, you saw an increase. Curious... is there some particular factor you attribute this to that other contributors could influence in regard to their portfolios (images and videos)?

I don't have an explanation.  I shoot, grade, add good metadata, and upload the best clips I can of subject matter that I think will be in demand by customers. After that, it is totally out of my hands.  But those steps are very important.

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2 hours ago, chyworks said:

Doug’s stuff defies gravity!

People can choose to believe that they are luckier than others for having a healthy growth for now. Come January next year, everyone must walk like a 3 year old again thanks to the reset crap.

And no, you can’t tell SS you don’t need to walk coz you can fly high chasing rockets and defies gravity like a superman.

It won’t work.

I don't believe luck has anything to do with it.  Everyone's success, or lack thereof, is due to the work we put into planting our seeds long ago.   And yes, I will be reset to Level 1 in January.  I've crunched the numbers and that will cost me about $3000 in the first quarter of 2021 and then I'll be back to normal for the rest of the year.  Big deal.  You won't find me running around crying and threatening to close my account.  This is just the normal ups and downs of business.  It is a fact of life that any self-employed person deals with every day.  A lot of people around here just need to grow up and show some professionalism.

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2 hours ago, Foodio said:

And the faster you can climb back through the ranks the less this is going to negatively impact you

This is where SS has a say, a big one.

I don't know about others but my observation is that the factor that can make us reach a higher level is and was controlled in both systems. This is no conspiracy, just my own experience that could and probably is different for others:

- in the old system earnings were driving us higher, to the next level  not the high number of dl-s

- now, my earnings are the same as in May (average) but with a much lower number of dls (which counts for levels)

So, my question for myself is - do I want money or levels (dl-s)? Obviously, I can't have both.

2 hours ago, Foodio said:

the smaller and less popular ports will suffer the most.

The less popular will suffer but size doesn't seem to matter for good content. Wilm, Chy and you are big sellers (levels) despite a relatively small port.

BTW. I just noticed that SS's second big contributor's PF is vanishing.

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5 hours ago, Doug Jensen said:

normal ups and downs of business.  It is a fact of life that any self-employed person deals with every day. 

Unfortunately very true. The decision of a self-employed person is, and always has been, binary: Take it or leave it. Stay or go.

This whole debacle here at SS so much reminds me of a much worse beating I took in January of this year, when California enacted the AB-5 law. It said that labor companies can no longer classify A/V freelancers as independent contractors. So now, even if we might only work a couple of times a year for any given company, and won't ever reap any of the benefits, we are all considered part-time employees and there is a mountain of deductions, payroll taxes, etc. involved. So what happens? The labor companies pushed our day rates down and let us absorb the difference. Because they could not raise their prices to their buyers (afraid to lose the business), and they couldn't (or wouldn't) pay the extra cost themselves. And we're talking substantial amounts of money here, something that will cost me hundreds of Dollars every time I work for them. So, there I am on the phone, discussing this with a guy I've been working for for 20 years. A guy who knows my name and knows I'm one of his best operators. I guy whose butt I saved several times. I tell him "You can't do this. I can't afford to work for that!" And you know what his reply was? "Okay, so should I take you off our roster then?" Just like that.

So, here we go with a similar situation in the stock business. Do I have ANY illusions that SS would care if I scream and cry and pull my port?

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All I can say that in June I'm around 30% down on sales, one pic boosted my earnings this month, but if this is taken off I would say I'm around
50% down in money compared to previous months. Sold count of pics remains about the same but a rash of $0.10, $0.14 sales is depressing
enough for me now not to upload any more new images for now, I have little motivation.

I'm not going to deactivate my images in the vein hope that SS might decide to reverse this savage cut in contributors roylaltes, time will tell.

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9 hours ago, Doug Jensen said:

I don't believe luck has anything to do with it.  Everyone's success, or lack thereof, is due to the work we put into planting our seeds long ago.   And yes, I will be reset to Level 1 in January.  I've crunched the numbers and that will cost me about $3000 in the first quarter of 2021 and then I'll be back to normal for the rest of the year.  Big deal.  You won't find me running around crying and threatening to close my account.  This is just the normal ups and downs of business.  It is a fact of life that any self-employed person deals with every day.  A lot of people around here just need to grow up and show some professionalism.

I refrained from posting anything other than data initially, but my bad, I digressed.

Of course luck has nothing to do with it. Success in itself is very subjective. 

What you said about knowing the ups and downs of a self-employed person did sound relatable to me. One thing I disagree with you is to ask contributors (a lot of them) to grow up and show some professionalism. Believe it or not, I know a thing or two about the ups and downs of business as I myself, a self-employed too. So no big deal there, I am sure it's no big deal to you in a way this business, as you had said numerous time in this forum, is just a pocket change for you from what you do professionally. 

Things you said sounded oddly similar to some high ranking, ultra successful corporate men who have to work multiple times harder than grass roots do.

 

 

2 hours ago, Milo J said:

Unfortunately very true. The decision of a self-employed person is, and always has been, binary: Take it or leave it. Stay or go.

This whole debacle here at SS so much reminds me of a much worse beating I took in January of this year, when California enacted the AB-5 law. It said that labor companies can no longer classify A/V freelancers as independent contractors. So now, even if we might only work a couple of times a year for any given company, and won't ever reap any of the benefits, we are all considered part-time employees and there is a mountain of deductions, payroll taxes, etc. involved. So what happens? The labor companies pushed our day rates down and let us absorb the difference. Because they could not raise their prices to their buyers (afraid to lose the business), and they couldn't (or wouldn't) pay the extra cost themselves. And we're talking substantial amounts of money here, something that will cost me hundreds of Dollars every time I work for them. So, there I am on the phone, discussing this with a guy I've been working for for 20 years. A guy who knows my name and knows I'm one of his best operators. I guy whose butt I saved several times. I tell him "You can't do this. I can't afford to work for that!" And you know what his reply was? "Okay, so should I take you off our roster then?" Just like that.

So, here we go with a similar situation in the stock business. Do I have ANY illusions that SS would care if I scream and cry and pull my port?

Sad to hear but no, Milo, save your breath.

As SS dad said, you can take your port somewhere else if you feel sad or angry for the change. They don't give two hoots.

First off, please, we do not want this to be another thread of angry reactions. It's ok to be angry, but the idea here is to just share actual data. This involves some effort and math, so I appreciate anyone who is willing to participate.

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